Daniel 11:30, 32 And Jehovah's Witnesses

[Littleleslie]

Daniel 11:30, 32 And Jehovah's Witnesses

All 6.5 million Jehovah's witnesses agree with the fact, Jehovah would not establish a covenant relationship with trinitarian religions like Christendom. Okay, good.

Now, let's consider a key quote from the Watchtower Society's publications to make an especially astounding point. First off, we remember,

Daniel 11:30 says:

"...He will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant." (Daniel 11:30 New World Translation)

Now, let's notice this explanation of the above verse found in the 1993 November 1st Watchtower magazine, page 14, paragraphs 9, 10.

"The King Acts Effectively

9 After the war, in 1918, the victorious Allies imposed a punitive peace treaty on Germany, apparently designed to keep the German people in near starvation for the indefinite future. As a result, after staggering for some years in extreme distress, Germany was ripe for the rise of Adolf Hitler. He attained supreme power in 1933 and immediately launched a vicious attack against "the holy covenant," represented by the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ. In this he acted effectively against these loyal Christians, cruelly persecuting many of them.

10 Hitler enjoyed economic and diplomatic successes, acting effectively in that field also. In a few years, he made Germany a power to be reckoned with, being helped in this endeavor by "those leaving the holy covenant." Who were these? Evidently, the leaders of Christendom, who claimed a covenant relationship with God but had long since ceased to be disciples of Jesus Christ. Hitler successfully called on "those leaving the holy covenant" for their support. The pope in Rome made a concordat with him, and the Roman Catholic Church, as well as the Protestant churches in Germany, supported Hitler throughout his 12-year reign of terror."

Now, let's look at this Daniel 11:30 again, based upon the explanation given by the Watchtower Society. Here is the verse again,

"...He will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively [applies to anointed]; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant [applies to christendom]." (Daniel 11:30 New World Translation)

Yes, isn't it true that 6.5 million Jehovah's witnesses all teach, Verse 30 has to be split in half, with half of it applying to the anointed among Jehovah's witnesses and the second half applying to "those leaving the holy covenant," namely Christendom.

Daniel 11:32

"And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words..."

Again, 6.5 million Jehovah's witnesses all teach, "those who are acting wickedly against the covenant" is Christendom. They believe and teach Christendom fulfills this prophecy of Daniel.

Therefore, since Jehovah's witnesses agree Christendom could never, ever be accepted into a "holy covenant" with Jehovah because of the trinity, then why do they say the churches of christendom CAN BE LED INTO APOSTASY, since they have been apostate for the last 1600 years and have never, ever had a "covenanted" relationship with Jehovah? How is that possible?

To "act wickedly against a covenant," one has to be a party in the contract or covenant. For example, can I possibly by my actions, be correctly said to be "acting wickedly against" another person's "covenanted" marriage partner [wife or husband] by my actions? Am I in a marriage contract or covenant with someone else's mate? Can I be said to be "acting wickedly against" someone else's, yes your marriage mate?

I think we all know the answer that question. The answer is a resounding No!

Therefore, 6.5 million Jehovah's witnesses are teaching Trinitarian-Christendom is "acting wickedly against a covenant" that we all know...they are NOT a part of in the first place. People, let's be reasonable here.

Just as the Watchtower Society says above, Christendom "claims" ... yes, "claims" to be in that "holy covenant," but we all know better, right?

So then, why are 6.5 Jehovah's witnesses conveniently applying half of the verse to the "anointed" among Jehovah's witnesses, and the other half of the verse applying this to our convenient "scapegoat," good ole wicked Christendom...why are we doing this?

It is very clear from reading the entire context, all of this...all of this applies to those who are truly IN THE "HOLY COVENANT". There is no need to split the verse up in parts and make some acrobatic application to christendom. There is no need for that.

Littleleslie

[Jeshurun]

Regardless of the Watchtower's beginnings which were steeped in Masonry and Pyramidology, Jehovah's favor came to be upon the Bible Students, and his Holy Spirit continued to bless them and multiply them until they became Jehovah's Witnesses and beyond. In spite of the 1914 doctrine and all the ensuing false interpretations to make it fit, Jehovah has used this organization to bring basic truths about him, his Son, and his purposes for the earth, and a Kingdom to rule over it, to light in the modern world, after centuries of darkness, a world dominated by occult teachings. Jehovah's Witnesses to this date have never been perfect, and prophecy foretells that the WTBTS will eventually become far worse than it's Babylonian counterparts, mostly for the reason that they prophesy falsely in Jehovah's name. The end result is a purification, or cleansing of the "scummy dross", and the tearing down of the "whitewashed wall" which stands between Jehovah and his people, blinding them. The 16th chapter of Ezekiel is an excellent example of this entire story.

[Littleleslie]

Jeshurun-

I agree with your comments!

I know Jehovah's Witnesses are not and have not been "perfect"! However, that makes me think about ancient Israel...they were not perfect, in fact, wickedness abounded! God's People were wicked! They committed the worst crime in human history! So nobody can say that God's People cannot be plagued with "wickedness" and "lawlessness" as dominant qualities...thus the need for cleansing! Because, in the end, in earthly New Jerusalem (Zion) there will not be one wicked person, nor will a place be found for anybody that is wicked. -- See Isaiah 35:8-10.

See Article: Earthly Jerusalem First Disciplined, Then Praised!

This is a two-part article and it brings out Jeremiah 33:6-9:

(Jeremiah 33:6-9) 6 ‘Here I am bringing up for her a recuperation and health; and I will heal them and reveal to them an abundance of peace and truth. 7 And I will bring back the captives of Judah and the captives of Israel, and I will build them just as at the start. 8 And I will purify them from all their error with which they have sinned against me, and I will forgive all their errors with which they have sinned against me and with which they have transgressed against me. 9 And she will certainly become to me a name of exultation, a praise and a beauty toward all the nations of the earth who will hear of all the goodness that I am rendering to them. And they will certainly be in dread and be agitated on account of all the goodness and on account of all the peace that I am rendering to her.’”

And so we know God's People will be cleansed in the end. However, the means in which Jehovah goes about this will be through a completely different covenant arrangement. One, other than the "Christian Law Covenant" that we are all familiar with. It will be a brand new covenant arrangement, which will be "an indefinitely lasting covenant" of God's choosing.

Which is why I like your mention of Ezekiel chapter 16, and you're right about that. Concerning Ezekiel 16 and that particular "indefinitely lasting covenant" mentioned there that Jehovah will grant for the "atonement" of his people in the "last days," please pay note to the following quote that is taken from "Our Mission Statement".

"We wish all to know the following: Our primary purpose in setting up this particular discussion board is to assist all desiring Jehovah's witnesses (former or current) to the sober understanding and realistic truth, as revealed from all available evidence shown in Holy Scripture and prophecy, that the Holy Christian Covenant which has been made available by God Almighty and mediated thru the shed blood of His "only-begotten Son" Jesus Christ ever since the first century of our common era, has regrettably BEEN BROKEN, thus putting God's Name People in a most alarming situation for our times, and in desperate need of another "indefinitely lasting covenant" from God. -- See Daniel 11:30, 32; Isaiah 55:3; Jeremiah 50:4, 5; Ezekiel 20:36-38.

To be sure, Bible Prophecy makes quite plain ours is a time of "great distress" and future turmoil, because of the great "increase in lawlessness" by God's Name People against Jehovah's Law, yes Jehovah's Christian Law Covenant itself. (Jeremiah 30:7; Jeremiah 31:31, 32; Matthew 24:12) This particular "lawlessness" that has undeniably resulted in the outright breaking of God's Christian Law Covenant, has manifested itself in the blatant form of a particularly heinous, clandestine liaison between the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses and the United Nations Organization, wherein they fully agreed to become an NGO Supporter of the "Wild Beast" Organization for close to 10 years (from 1992 thru 2001), thereby placing "community guilt" upon all 6.5 million Jehovah's witnesses scattered in over 100,000 congregations worldwide. -- (See Daniel 9:4-20 as instance of "community guilt" expressed and accepted by the prophet Daniel for the nation.)

In all such cases, where National Sin has been committed on the part of God's Covenanted People, Jehovah God's accepted standard of repentance fully demands His people now become truly "humiliated" in the face of such a national disgrace and folly, before He would allow them back into His Favor and be known again as His Name People, fully exonerated from this Great Sin on the Governing Body's part, who are referred to in prophecy as wicked "chieftains" and "kings" of God's people, in whom Jehovah's people must fully reject in the end. -- See Leviticus 4:3-21; Ezekiel 43:7-11; Psalms 15:4."

You will notice in the above info, there was a mention of another covenant, "an indefinitely lasting covenant" needed to fully reconcile God's People back to Jehovah after committing such a disgraceful sin and folly. We firmly believe because of the wicked NGO debacle, the Christian covenant itself has been broken and Jehovah's Witnesses as a people need a new covenant with God, one OTHER THAN THE COVENANT MEDIATED BY CHRIST.

What do you think of this idea?

Agape,
Littleleslie

[Madmary1]

Regardless of the Watchtower's beginnings which were steeped in Masonry and Pyramidology, Jehovah's favor came to be upon the Bible Students, and his Holy Spirit continued to bless them and multiply them until they became Jehovah's Witnesses and beyond. In spite of the 1914 doctrine and all the ensuing false interpretations to make it fit, Jehovah has used this organization to bring basic truths about him, his Son, and his purposes for the earth, and a Kingdom to rule over it, to light in the modern world, after centuries of darkness, a world dominated by occult teachings. Jehovah's Witnesses to this date have never been perfect, and prophecy foretells that the WTBTS will eventually become far worse than it's Babylonian counterparts, mostly for the reason that they prophesy falsely in Jehovah's name. The end result is a purification, or cleansing of the "scummy dross", and the tearing down of the "whitewashed wall" which stands between Jehovah and his people, blinding them. The 16th chapter of Ezekiel is an excellent example of this entire story.

Yes, Jeshurun exactly!

If you think about it...WHO COMMITTED THE WORST SIN EVER??? Was it not God's own people, in the first century, by killing Jesus?

With that thought in mind, being that Ancient Israel or God's people (led by the religious leaders) of the first century were that wicked, then is it any wonder that today the WTBTS (as leaders of Jehovah's witnesses) have also committed sooooooooo many sins? However, doesn't this also mean they will one day after Godly Discipline... prevail, and fulfill the good part of the prophecy mentioned in Ezekiel 37:15-28?

Still today, we know they exist in utter sin and despair. Sad but true...but none the less they are still God's people.

However it seems there is one big thing that you may be missing...

You see, God's people in the first century, the Jews, also needed a 'new covenant'. They broke the Mosaic Law Covenant and were in need of the Christian Covenant. Hence today...the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's witnesses through "community guilt" have done the same, they have broken the Christian Covenant and need an entirely different covenant arrangement altogether.

The stark fact that God's People have to feel truly "humiliated" and "shamed" because of this great sin on the Governing Body's part, and the fact that God requires an entirely new covenant arrangement for His people, really shows the tremendous seriousness of the NGO situation, which is facing all God's Name People today. This situation emphasizes just how serious things are in Jehovah's eyes, and just what it is going to take to have our "community guilt" or sins "atoned for" finally, in God's eyes. -- See Ezekiel 16:63.

This is the point "Littleleslie" is making above.

Hope this helps...

Agape,
Madmary1